Some more gobbledy gook about 1914. Jesus came or maybe he didn't, but he didn't start the harvest or he did, and most of the stuff is coming in the future, depending on if you agree that the words "come" and "arrive" mean the same thing, and if they refer to the future, as in "return." I'm a little bit confused myself, but I only read the articles 6 times, and I don't speak JW as well as I did when my brain was numb. I just am pretty sure that Jesus came or visited or arrived invisibly, inspetted the bible students in 1914 and appointed the ones remaining in 1919... The slave was selected because of their dedication and preaching work. jesus was proud to see they'd distributed millions of books and magazines, declaring the end of the world And the news of the kingdom.
Faithful Witness
JoinedPosts by Faithful Witness
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31
Isn't the new light exciting???
by wannaexit inwell, for some jw's the gb new light is very very exciting.
in fact its the most exciting thing that has happened in a very long time.
this is what a long time jw told me.
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Need advice: Witnessing to a JW at my door
by Faithful Witness ini have been waiting for this moment, and it has finally come!
i was actually in the middle of typing in the other thread, about householders who caused you doubts, when a jw rang my doorbell.
my barking german shepherd didnt scare him away, but did knock all his books out of his hand and onto a wet porch, which i really felt bad about.
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Faithful Witness
Ok, I've been thinking and praying about this guy and what to ask him when he comes over. I'm replaying some of the statements he made to me, in his attempts to throw me off course in our conversation together.
Two issues are standing out for me.
He was tring to make a case for the need of a Jehovah's organization on earth. I'm forgetting now what he compared it to, but he did use the "feeding many out of the hands of a few" As his example.
Another thing he was taking a stand on, is the LOVE, the unparalleled love that exists within the JW organization. He emphasized Jesus's command to love God and love your neighbor.
I'm thinking that these two arguments don't really hold water, when you combine them. I don't see love coming from the GB.
How can I phrase my questions about this, to this couple, and inspire them to think for themselves to get an answer? I see evidence of lots of things coming down from New York, but i wouldn't call it "love." How can I ask this question in his language?
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31
Isn't the new light exciting???
by wannaexit inwell, for some jw's the gb new light is very very exciting.
in fact its the most exciting thing that has happened in a very long time.
this is what a long time jw told me.
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Faithful Witness
As someone who never quite bought the old truth, I find their reaction to the new truth very interesting.
When I discovered the fact that things were getting switched around, I called up my old jw friend and had her deliver the watchtower to me. I figured she could use the points on her score card.
She was so excited! Wow! I love it when the light gets brighter! Then she said something about a sailboat, and adjusting your course. All I kept thinking, was being tossed around by every breeze that blows.
Then in the recent (part 2) lesson, they were looking at that timeline. They commented how the devil "the sneaky guy," was hunched over, but Jesus was standing up straight and tall. Later, in the same talk, someone started talking about a weed that looks like wheat... but the wheat "bends" in the wind, while the weeds stand up straight and proud (just like all those ignorant "imitation Christians," acting like they are the queen!) I guess no one realized that they were, therefore, saying the wheat was stooping over like the sneaky guy That planted the weeds in the first place. (I am referring to the timeline that illustrates the new timing of the harvest season, in the parable of the wheat and the weeds, from Watchtower study edition, July 15, 2013, illustrated on pages 10-11).
They just keep referring back to the illustration and the timeline, because the rest of it is too complicated. "Jehovah will unite us. Be confident in his deliverance. Opposition will surely come, but we will stick together on this." (some of the planted comments that week). Oh and don't ignore, "We are grateful to Jehovah's writing department, for providing us with this information at the perfect time."
I find myself wondering... Are they excited about the new truth, because they never really believed or understood the old truth? Isn't that a relief and a comfort?!? If you are serving a religion that is not fulfilling or satisfying your needs, and they keep dropping little tidbits and breadcrumbs for you to pick up along the path, I can see why I would be exciting... Give us something new! Anything but this! Please deliver us! We are starving!
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How did I get here? From Bible student to baby missionary
by Faithful Witness inmy name is valerie.
i thought i would add my story to the archives, in case anyone else can relate.. i am a homeschooling mom of 2 young children, ages 7 & 5. i was "saved" (overused expression) when i was a child, attended awana until middle school, and then led a basic, worldy life as a "good person.".
one day, during a short separation from my husband, the doorbell rang.
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Faithful Witness
I am carefully considering all your varying advice, and appreciate your experiences.
My parents are already aware that I am trying to warn them about the organization. I've said it out loud. My dad claims that he is "still" looking for what is wrong (does that mean he actually knows something is wrong, he just can't put his finger on it?)
Also, I wanted to add that I am not using anything but their own words and the bible, to pose any questions to my sister and brother in law. The book I placed in my mom's bathroom, was a book full of photocopies of things they printed from the early days, along with notes to help you navigate the pages of fine print and see their bizarre teachings at the turn of the century. I placed this book, right after a conversation we had, in which I challenged them to question the truth. If someone is declaring that Christ came in 1919 and appointed them as his exclusive channel, then you really should look at what they were saying in 1914 and 1919.
I myself, was not ready to view opposing evidence until recently. Despite watching that one tv program (and only part of it), I still felt it was wrong to listen to anyone who spoke against the JW's. I have listened to the opinions and advice of people who have experienced this, but only after I feel I have exhausted my resources with Christian people and pastors that I know. I am well aware that they won't read a news story about child sexual abuse. I tried that before my mom got baptized and she ran to an elder to check my story.
I do feel that God is working through me somehow, to reach more than just my parents and sister. Sending a random JW to my door, in the middle of my prayer to reach one, was simply too much of a coincidence. BUT I appreciate the advice given, that my parents could get wind of my reaching out to witnesses in my area. I have so far been able to explain my interest, by telling them I am confused by the changes, and that I am worried about them. Even my sister went along with that excuse. They are still praying that we will come back to the truth. If i keep it low-key enough, hopefully my questions won't be of obvious.
At some point, they are going to have to drop this whole house-to-house ministry. They don't want to have a householder blurt out some current event that could reveal their wrongdoings to the very ones sacrifcing their very lives to promote their magazine business. Who will be left to recruit?
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21
How did I get here? From Bible student to baby missionary
by Faithful Witness inmy name is valerie.
i thought i would add my story to the archives, in case anyone else can relate.. i am a homeschooling mom of 2 young children, ages 7 & 5. i was "saved" (overused expression) when i was a child, attended awana until middle school, and then led a basic, worldy life as a "good person.".
one day, during a short separation from my husband, the doorbell rang.
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Faithful Witness
Are old articles from the Watchtower, considered apostate literature? For example, the articles referenced in the current magazine... From 1990-1999?
I have obtained photocopies of the articles mentioned in the endnotes of the July 15, 2013 Watchtower study edition. This is the magazine that reveals the new light about the FD&S and the 1914-1919 changes. I couldn't understand the lesson, without access to the referenced material. That took some searching...
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The door bell rang today
by ABibleStudent injust before i started undressing to take a shower to go to an appointment, the door bell rang.
i thought about not answering the door, but then thought what the hell it could be my neighbor, who is a widow and in her 70's, needing some help.. at the door was a frail man about 85+ years old dressed in a shabby sport coat, shirt, tie, and slacks, and a skinny woman about 75+ years old in a long dress that needed to be ironed.
as i grabbed my dog to prevent him from jumping at the screen door, which was partially open, and beating the couple with his tail and making them fall, i thought what am i going to do.
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Faithful Witness
The Thin Mints still come in 2 separate cellophane sleeves, so you can easily share the box with a friend. I am also a huge fan of those ones with the coconut and caramel, oh yum! Only 15 cookies per box, so don't waste them on kids hahahaha!!!
Old people would probably enjoy the little shortbread ones that look like the Girl Scout logo. They might be called Trefoils.
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21
How did I get here? From Bible student to baby missionary
by Faithful Witness inmy name is valerie.
i thought i would add my story to the archives, in case anyone else can relate.. i am a homeschooling mom of 2 young children, ages 7 & 5. i was "saved" (overused expression) when i was a child, attended awana until middle school, and then led a basic, worldy life as a "good person.".
one day, during a short separation from my husband, the doorbell rang.
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Faithful Witness
I am searching for the right questions to present to this nice man who has presented himself to me. He is an elder, but his native land is Cambodia. He has been a JW since 1982.
No other Christian church looks at this parable, as a prophecy or annointing of any men on earth today. I'm just not buying it. Every Christian I ask about this, has never heard the phrase, "The Faithful and Discreet Slave." Does this teaching somehow prove that they ARE the true religion?
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21
How did I get here? From Bible student to baby missionary
by Faithful Witness inmy name is valerie.
i thought i would add my story to the archives, in case anyone else can relate.. i am a homeschooling mom of 2 young children, ages 7 & 5. i was "saved" (overused expression) when i was a child, attended awana until middle school, and then led a basic, worldy life as a "good person.".
one day, during a short separation from my husband, the doorbell rang.
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Faithful Witness
So far, my parents seem to be operating under the assumption that they can still speak to me, since I was never baptized as a JW. I'm using that technicality, for as long as I can get away with it.
I have placed a book in their home, entitled, "Documented FACTS the Watchtower Does Not Want YOU to Know!" (I hid it under some magazines in the bathroom).
I sent an email to them, explaining the concept of "new light," and how it is used as a thought-stopping tool by the JWs. I included the upcoming warning from the November 2013 WT, that will warn them to "obey, no matter what..." I also included an image of the secret book that elders carry, "Shepherding the Flock of God." I challenged my dad to ask his elders why they need information he is not allowed to read. He has always been a proud and stubborn SOB. I'm shocked he will go along with this...
My mom actually replied to the email (not sure if Dad read it)... she simply said, "Don't worry, we won't drink the kool-aid..." (well, that's a relief... but what ARE you willing to do??)
At a recent funeral, my brother in law and sister actually spoke to me! I think they must have heard we had attended a meeting. I asked her what she thought of the new prophecy and the date change, and the whole 1914 thing... her reply, after a blank stare for about 10 seconds: "It makes sense..."
My BIL simply said, "I wish they wouldn't spend so much time talking about what they USED to believe.... if this is what we believe now, then let's just move forward..." (yikes...)
I kept emphasizing that they should look at the Bible for themselves, and check these things out... They agreed wholeheartedly. That's what JWs DO!!! Read the Bible!! (eyeroll)
I asked,"What happens, when the Watchtower and Bible don't agree... which one is true?" Reply:"That hasn't happened yet."
My BIL went on to attempt telling me a story about something he had tried to rectify in the Bible. When he couldn't, he went to an elder, who showed him how to justify it. It didn't come out very well, but I appreciate his efforts to explain it. I think I actually might have made him thimk that day... (Maybe!!)
I asked my sister about the parable of the sheep and goats, and how JWs can claim to be the sheep, when they don't believe in giving charity, helping homeless or hungry people. Her reply was to tell me how they were doing something better... I resisted the obvious retort (magazines?)
So the good news, is that I do think I have opened up a conversation with my sister. My most recent conversation with her before this, was when she called me up, bawling because I had outed her as an unloving JW. She told me she had to protect her children from me. She called me an apostate and idolator. I think we have made a little progress from that point, even though I am still both of those things (and now I can add the badge of "Imitation Christian," from the recent label given to non-JWs).
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21
How did I get here? From Bible student to baby missionary
by Faithful Witness inmy name is valerie.
i thought i would add my story to the archives, in case anyone else can relate.. i am a homeschooling mom of 2 young children, ages 7 & 5. i was "saved" (overused expression) when i was a child, attended awana until middle school, and then led a basic, worldy life as a "good person.".
one day, during a short separation from my husband, the doorbell rang.
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Faithful Witness
Hello! My name is Valerie. I thought I would add my story to the archives, in case anyone else can relate.
I am a homeschooling mom of 2 young children, ages 7 & 5. I was "saved" (overused expression) when I was a child, attended awana until middle school, and then led a basic, worldy life as a "good person."
One day, during a short separation from my husband, the doorbell rang. A pretty young JW was offering to teach me some things about the Bible. I was lonely, so I let her in. After a few months of studying with her, I returned to my husband. I was now in a territory far from hers, so she referred me to a JW near my home.
My husband and I studied with the JW's, on and off, from about 2004-2010. We attended meetings from 2006-2010 (with some periods of inactivity mixed in there). During this period, we moved to a totally new area again, and had more studies with JWs here. Coincidently, our old bible teacher was from the area we now live, so her brother ended up taking over our bible study.
Separately, during this same period of time and in a totally different territory, the JWs came to the door of my brother in law. He invited them in, and he and my sister got on the fast track. They were baptized within 18 months. My parents, who live near my sister, have also joined the JWs and have been baptized. Guessing, but my sister was baptized in 2009, dad in 2010, and mom in 2011 or 2012. My sister has 2 kids, 11 & 9. They all attend the same KH, go out in service together, etc.
While my family was ready to jump right in and become part of the Kingdom, my husband and I were more of a careful and slow study. He is an intellectual, and we were examining this religion carefully before we made any life-altering commitments. Our bible teacher was always encouraging us to do our own research on the things we were studying: origins of holidays, pagan symbols, religious ceremonies, etc. We stumbled upon some information about the Watchtower Society and some unfavorable things that people had experienced with the JWs. We were shocked. Before seeing this video, I was getting ready to start riding along when friends went out in service. It sounded like fun (little did I know).
It was actually a recorded video on YouTube, of the John Ankerburg Show, from the 80's sometime. He had a panel of Ex-JWs on his show, and they were telling of some of their experiences. There was a woman from the annointed class, a leader of some sort inside the watchtower, and another prominent couple. We heard of events like the 1975 prophecy, the truth about how the decisions are made inside the governing body, and other incidents that just broke my heart. I remember I was crying when we were watching it.
When our teacher came for our weekly bible study, we showed him part of the video. We assumed that he would have words to comfort us or explain what they were talking about. Instead, he crossed his arms, turned around in his chair, and said, "Oh, they are apostates!"
We'd never even heard that word before... He explained that the only reason anyone ever leaves the JW organization, is if they are disfellowshipped as a fornicator or some other reason that is escaping my memory right now. When we asked him about the 1975 prediction, he adamantly denied it ever happened. He was 77 years old, born and raised JW. He remembers 1975 very well, and no one ever predicted anything like that. We asked if he could get a copy of the magazine that the man had displayed on the show... He had held up an issue of the Watchtower, that had a big title about 1975 on it. He said he could, so we waited until the following week to continue talking about it. He made it clear he was not going to address anything they said. We were stunned.
The next week, he returned with a transcribed copy of the article in question... like it had been typewritten, not the original article or even a photocopy. It was so obviously not the original article, we didn't even bother to read it. This sealed the deal for us. They were lying to us.
After that, we stopped going to meetings. We were lying to our friends, just to enjoy the "fellowhip." They were always happy to see us, and enjoyed our children. We enjoyed the picnics and we did have one family that we really became good friends with... but even though I told my friend that we were having doubts and questions, and she offered to get together and talk about them sometime, she never followed up. We did not want to "stumble" anyone in their faith, and sort of assumed that everyone in the JWs knew the things we had discovered, and just hadn't mentioned it to us. They spend hours in training, rehearsing answers to your objections and questions. After sitting through what we used to call the "Joe Smith Show," we already knew what would happen if we kept asking questions. We were never going to follow along, so we knew we had to quit.
Our bible teacher came by about a month later, read from the bible, the parable of the sower of the seeds... I think he was accusing us of "chasing riches" and getting choked out by weeds. He then transferred our study to a newer JW, who went to a totally separate congregation from ours. I think they assumed my husband would have more in common with the new guy, because he was a convert, and also ex-military, like my husband.
Meanwhile, in another part of the state, my family is getting more and more involved with the JWs and they discover that we have stopped our bible study and meeting attendance. About 6 months later, my brother in law (the most devout JW in our family) corners me alone and confronts me about 2 things he has been mad about. First, he ambuses me with his grudge about us not hiring him for a concrete job he said he didn't want... then he accuses me of "turning my back on Jehovah, and we ALL know that YOU wear the pants in the family." Wow... You would not talk to me like that, if my husband were here!
After this accusation, I am crying and tell him what had happened. I told him how we had discovered evidence against the WT and had asked questions. I told him how our teacher reacted. He had never been confronted with apostasy or any oppostion whatsoever, so he had no rehearsed answer. He told me that I should take these questions to my dad... "he would love to research those for you." Well, that didn't seem like an option really. I've never gone to my dad for anything. We just don't have that kind of relationship. I went quietly back into my corner.
About 2 weeks after that, my sister (who had been standing there, SILENT, the whole time her husband was accusing and attacking me) sent me an email with an attachment of their Watchtower Study. It was from w11 7/15 pp. 15-19... Will You Heed Jehovah's Warnings? She included a note, saying how she didn't mean I was a bad person or anything... but "this might explain the reaction you got." The entire article is pretty disturbing to a thinking person, but some of the highlights for me were:
"Suppose that a doctor told you to avoid contact with someone who is infected with a contagious, deadly disease. You would know what the doctor means, and you would strictly heed his warning. Well, apostates are “mentally diseased,” and they seek to infect others with their disloyal teachings. (1 Tim. 6:3, 4) Jehovah, the Great Physician, tells us to avoid contact with them. We know what he means, but are we determined to heed his warning in all respects?"
"What is involved in avoiding false teachers? We do not receive them into our homes or greet them. We also refuse to read their literature, watch TV programs that feature them, examine their Web sites, or add our comments to their blogs. Why do we take such a firm stand? Because of love."
"So from where do false teachers come? They may arise from within the congregation. Such ones are apostates. * What do they want? They are not content just to leave the organization that they perhaps once loved. Their aim, Paul explained, is “to draw away the disciples after themselves.” Note the definite article in the expression “the disciples.” Rather than going out and making their own disciples, apostates seek to take Christ’s disciples with them. Like “ravenous wolves,” false teachers are out to devour trusting members of the congregation, destroying their faith and leading them away from the truth.— Matt. 7:15; 2 Tim. 2:18 ."
Things continued as they were, until my brother in law and sister have decided that they can no longer come to our house. We have tried to adapt things in our extended family, to include everyone. We have created a new family gathering once a year, called the "homemade trade," replacing our former Christmas party with a differen gift-giving event. It was always scheduled at my house, since we live at a halfway point between relatives that live 3-4 hours apart. Everyone was excited, until my dad suddenly sent this email to all. He wanted to relocate the party to his house, under the excuse that he didn't want to travel. This was a big lie. I decided that one year of that nonsense (last year, they used some other lame excuse to have it at my dad's, excluding my other brother entirely) was enough. I replied to all, and put the "real issue on the table. Jake doesn't want to come to my house, because I decided not to become a JW." This shocked everyone, and embarassed my JW family. It wasn't the right way to handle things, I realize now... but I'm glad I got it out in the open anyway.
If this religion is going to take over their lives, why do they have to hide so many things about it? I don't get it, really... Why aren't you trying to save the lives of your other 3 daughters? Strangers are more important, apparently. They think like many "imitation" Christians... Living a wholesome, happy life, will make my family come around and want to enjoy what I am enjoying.
Anyway, that party never happened. It was supposed to be in January or February. My bad, but I was the only one who was going to say what the rest of my family only dared to THINK. The JWs have totally messed up our family time, and we are now divided. It's official. Infiltration complete.
Fast forward... Our family has been attending Baptist churches for about 2.5 years. I got baptized on Easter of 2012. My kids are learning how to read the Bible for themselves and think critically about what people try to feed them as facts. I really relate to the story of Joseph, which means that I still have a lot to learn. I have been in a time of transformation and blessings and miracles that were meant to give me confidence. I have been rescued a few times, in ways that could only have been orchestrated by God. I know He is with me always.
I have come to the realization that there is a reason that God allows things to happen to us. Why did I go along with the JWs for such a long time? Why didn't I "learn" faster? Why did God reveal the TTATT to us, but not to my family? He obviously revealed it at a critical time for us. We weren't even looking for information like that we found. My husband stumbled upon it on YouTube, of all places... this led us to do more research, where we discovered bizarre things about their origins, including some of the things taught by Russell and Rutherford.
This past spring and summer, I have been transformed in so many ways. I have forgiven my family for their behavior toward me, and the JWs that came and deceived me. They really don't know any better. They are trying to do the right thing.
I have come to have true compassion, even for my brother in law, the man I have resented ever since the day I discovered he was marrying my 19-year old sister (because he knocked her up).
I now APPRECIATE the fact that the JWs came to my door. Without their gentle (and not so gentle) teachings and care, we might still be lost in the world. Because of the things they were telling us, my husband and I have really been diving into the Bible now. We are on a mission to know the REAL Jesus, and to teach his ways to our children. We are sinners, and have our struggles like everyone else. The JWs gave us a higher drive to live a wholesome lifestyle, and really try to follow the master's teachings.
Since I have some (enough) information about how the JWs and the WT operate, and the teaching methods and mind control they employ, I feel like I am better equipped to help others see the truth also. I have been led to reach out to JWs, and help them escape, if they are ready.
I believe that people should be allowed to think for themselves. This is strongly discouraged by the WT, and we always had a big problem with that. It's easy to let others do the thinking for you, especially when they make complicated interpretations like the ones being proclaimed in this month's WT Study articles. The dates, the confusion between arrival and come and return... WHAT??? The "endnotes" that require you to go flip-flapping inside the magazine, the references to magazines that are 30 years old and impossible to find, unless you have been inside for 30 years... all clever tools, used to confuse you into believing that only the "annointed" ones need to understand this. "The important thing is that we STICK TOGETHER on this. Jehovah will Keep Us UNITED on this." (Exact, scripted commentary made during this lesson - we attended the meeting, just to observe this happening ... HUH???)
The prophecies are changing. The warnings are increasing. The leaders of the WT are lashing out, like wild beasts that are trapped in a corner. The alarms are going off, like an air-raid siren. The time left is growing short. I know it sounds dramatic, but the way that God has orchestrated all of this in my life, has been absolutely incredible. I am ready to be used, for whatever purpose He desires.
I have been leaking information to my parents. My mom says "you will never offend me..." but I am still being careful, of course. I will soon be ready to get a guage on their thinking again.
2 days ago, a local JW, a total stranger, was sent to my door. He gave me a magazine about Halloween. He is making a return visit with his wife next week. I'm preparing a couple of questions, that I am hoping with inspire some critical thinking on his part, since he has been a JW since 1982. He came to my door, WHILE I was typing on this message board, saying I wanted to be a householder that caused someone to doubt... Ding Dong! If that is not a sign, I don't know what is... (not to try to puff myself up with some grand purpose or great knowledge). I have a sincere desire to help people see that there is life outside the Watchtower.
I'm sure I've already said way too much, although there is still some explaining to do. I'm here to find ideas, advice and tools I can use to reach JWs. My eventual goal is to rescue my family, but I also know that I can't do that... only the Holy Spirit and their own independent minds can do the work of freeing them from the grip this organization has on their lives. I watch my mother's health deterioriate, and I really hope she will find herself waking up soon. My dad claims that he went into this "looking for what is wrong, and I'm STILL looking for what is wrong..." but then goes on to say how he "KNOWS that only 144,000 are going to heaven," and he's met a member of the GB, and there was definitely something "different" about him. (POWER!!)
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A conversation between Jesus and an JW Elder
by suavojr inand behold, an elder stood up to put him to the test, saying, teacher, what shall i do to inherit eternal life?.
he said to him, what is written in the bible?
how do you read?.
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Faithful Witness
I thought of this parable recently also! Great analogy.